I don't know much about the rapture myself, other than what I've read in Revelations. I've never actually studied the book of Revelations before, though, that's the thing. You know when you have youth group at church and one evening a week you actually have a study time and it's almost like written work, prayer groups & discussion groups, and studying the Bible to find out what it really means, like it's translations from the greek versions and stuff?
I've done that for a lot of passages and books but never Revelations so what I do know and believe is only really my interpretation of what it all says/means.
Basically, first and foremost, I believe the rapture hasn't happened yet, or in more detail, that Jesus hasn't had his "second coming". I'm not sure about when Jesus comes back for a second time - it might be for a longer period of time, or it might be for a split second. I know that he'll come back the way he left - in rolling clouds and on a big white horse, and he'll gather all his followers and stuff but I don't know if that would take time or if he can indeed do it in a split second. He probably can and he probably will.
I believe the rapture could happen at any minute of any day (much the same way as death), and that's why there is pressure in some Christian communities to "be ready", but to be honest I don't think God will make Jesus come back until He knows all the people are destined to be, are ready themselves. So all those non-believers who will one day become believers, Jesus won't come back until they're ready.
I also don't think he'll come back until "everyone has heard and made a choice". That's why it's so important to go out into the mission fields and preach the gospel, because even if people hear it and reject it; at least they've heard it and made a concious choice about it!
Anyway. I shall be annoying and get my Bible out and look up stuff about rapture, because that's where we will get our answers from!
[later] ... been reading. Found a passage called "the harvest of the Earth" ... I'm guessing it's about the rapture, because the rapture is also known as the harvest.
The Harvest of the Earth I looked, and there before me was a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was one "like a son of man" with a crown of gold on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand. Then another angel came out of the temple and called in a loud voice to him who was sitting on the cloud, "Take your sickle and reap, because the time to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is ripe." So he who was seated on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested. --- Revelations 14:14-16
Also, in Matthew 24 Jesus talks a lot about the "end times" (ie, the rapture, the tribulation, the 1000 years of Satan being in the Abyss, etc etc). It's in this chapter of the Bible that I get most of my understanding about the rapture, but it's still pretty confusing.
There is like a litlte footnote in my study Bible, titled, "It's Special", and it says this:
The book of Revelation is hard to understand. It's full of images and sumbols. Many of the things it describes are great and terrible: stars plunge into the seas, mountains tremble, mysterious beasts emerge to lead humans in war against God. Some people see Revelation as a description of what lies ahead for our world. Others say that Revelation is speaking of an attack on the Roman empire in the auther's day. What is the best way to study this special book? Read it without trying to figure out every image. Try to imagine the wonderful and terrible events it describes. Read it with a growing confidence that God is in charge and that he will triumph over evil at history's end.
To me that's comforting. My study Bible has little study sections on pretty much every page, and a lot of the time it's very useful to help me understand what the Bible actually says and how it really is relevant in todays world, but the study note in Revelations tells me to stop trying to figure it out but just read it with confidence that Gods in control.
So I guess that's all I do. Have faith that whatever will happen or already has happened, is in the hands of God!
Anyway, here are some verses from Matthew 24 which give us a few answers.
(not going to type out every single verse, just the ones that seem to have a few answers about rapture, especially for Edge and anyone else who want to know more about it all)
In verse 1 Jesus leaves the temple with his and turns his attention to some buildings, and then in verse 2 he says to his disciples this:
"Do you see all these things?" he asked. "I tell you the truth, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down."
Verse 3, the disciples ask when that will happen and what the signs are for Jesus' coming and for the end of the ages.
Over the next few verses, Jesus says quite a few things.
verse 4 & 5: Watch that no one decieves you. For many will come in my name, claming, 'I am the Christ' and will decieve many.
Verse 6 & 7: You will hear of wars and rumours of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. Nathion will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There wil be famines and earthquakes in various places.
verse 9. you will be hated by all nations because of me (big it up to all the Christians that get hated, ridiculed and persecuted because of their faith in Jesus, right on!)
verse 10. At that time many will turn away from their faith and will betray and hate each other.
verse 12, 13 & 14. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come
The next few verses are like, there will be great distress, etc etc.
verse 27: For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man
verse 29 to 31. "Immediately after the distress of those days " 'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'
"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
verse 36. No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father
verse 40 & 41. Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.
verse 42 to 44. Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.
---------
Interesting stuff, huh? It's a little easier to understand than what is said in Revelations, because in that chapter it's Jesus telling his disciples what it will be like and what will happen, etc ... but in Revelations it's basically John writing out all the dreams he had and there really is a lot of images and symbolism that is hard to understand.
So yea, most of what I believe about the rapture is what I understand about chapter 24 in Matthew ... but I guess I just trust God about what's going to happen.
Oh and, Erin, has you heard "I wish we'd all been ready" by DC Talk? It's about rapture.
Goes like this....
Life was filled with guns and war and all of us got trampled on the floor. I wish we'd all been ready. The children died, the days grew cold, a peice of bread could buy a bag of gold and I wish we'd all been ready
And there's no time to change your mind, the Son has come and you've been left behind.
A man and wife asleep in bed she hears a noise, turns her head and he's gone. I wish we'd all been ready. Two men walking up a hill, one disappears and one's left standing still
And there's no time to change your mind, the Son has come and you've been left behind.
The Father spoke, the demons died, how could you have been so blind? There's no time to change your mind the Son has come and you've been left behind. No, there's no time to change your mind, the Son has come and you've been left behind.
I hope we'll all be ready, I hope we'll all be ready.
It's a sad song, because it's the reality of what will happen, one day.
Also, Edge, the line about the man and wife asleep in bed... that's also one of the reasons I'd want to marry someone of my own faith - because I'd hate for that to happen if the rapture happens in my life time. How sad would that be
Joined: Jan 2005 Gender: Female Posts: 536 Location: Coventry, UK Karma: 12
Re: Rapture « Reply #3 on Aug 16, 2005, 3:04pm »
I've read a bit of Revelations before, because it's so random and different from the rest of the Bible. And there's all this about this Prostitute on a beast and... it's so strange and hard to understand.
But even after your explanations and quotes from easier-to-understand bits of the Bible, I'm still stumped by a few things about the whole Secon Coming.
So first of all... why? Why would we need it? If good people go to heaven when they die, then why do we need an end? And if some things that are said about how the living AND the dead will be judged, then what have the dead been doing until then? Like I said, i thought they were in heaven, so why be judged again?
Also, in a lot of quotes about the end, it sounds so sad and terrible. It's all about things getting ripped down and demons and everyone mourning and quaking in fear. Why is it going to be so miserable? Shouldn't it be a good thing, why's it portrayed as such a terrible event?
I know you don't know all the answers, but I was wondering if anything in the Bible is said about this stuff?
There could be stuff in the Bible but am not on my PC at the mo so I don't have a Bible at hand or anything. I'll have a nosey later on this evening.
See, about the whole death thing - that's why I've always thought there's room to believe that there really is a "pergatory" in the Christian faith... it's just that there's nothing (to my knowledge) of that type of thing in the Bible, so I don't know!
I guess everything has to end sometimes. If you read more of Revelations you learn that there is going to be a new Earth ... Gods going to create another one - that's why this one has to end.
The reason it's portrayed to be such a terrible event is probably because it will be a terrible event!
I believe that the Christian faith is true, but others don't, but lets say, IF it really was true (not just that I believe it), then how sad would it be to find that you got "left behind"... because we're free to make the decision ourselves.
Fact is, God is holy and perfect, and can't look upon sin - so he can't have sinners in his presence or in Heaven - that's why we need to confess/repent regularly (though not to other people, as you and I've discussed before that's more of a personal thing with God rather than sharing it with other humans!).... and so when the time has come that there's going to be a new earth and this one has ended - it'll be one where there's no evil and the streets will be made of gold etc etc.... so anyone who doesn't believe, will get sent to hell or to the lake of fire or whatever it is, and... to me, that's sad.
Not one of those annoying Christians that keep saying I cry for the unsaved or anything, cos at the end of the day if someone says "I don't believe in God", that's up to them - it's their choice and the decision has been made, why sit around crying about it, y'know? But it's still sad to think of all those people in hell for all eternity.
Also in Revelations it talks about "second death" ... when we die physically, it's just that we leave our bodies.
The second death is for all the people who go into hell ... either that, or you live. So maybe that won't happen til Judgement Day? Y'know what! These are all just my own thoughts!
So, it could have happened and we weren't ready, or it is still yet to happen?
I'm not sure that being ready means to physically be ready, but to be ready by believing maybe?
Yep, it could have happened already, or is yet to happen. Personally I believe it's yet to happen!
And yep to the previous question - it's not about being physically ready at all because physically, we'll all die. It's a spiritual thing ... it's when people believe - that's being ready, I think.
Joined: Jan 2005 Gender: Female Posts: 536 Location: Coventry, UK Karma: 12
Re: Rapture « Reply #7 on Aug 19, 2005, 2:25pm »
Hmm, verrrry interesting...
I'm just not sure about it, though. In particular, the fact that a good, kind, honest person could be cast into Hell just because they didn't believe in God... hmm...
Joined: Feb 2005 Gender: Female Posts: 253 Location: England Karma: 3
Re: Rapture « Reply #10 on Aug 20, 2005, 7:35pm »
Quote:
I'm just not sure about it, though. In particular, the fact that a good, kind, honest person could be cast into Hell just because they didn't believe in God... hmm...
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